tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post6159528846899348710..comments2024-01-21T07:49:10.730-08:00Comments on Best cRPGs: Character Creation, ToEELilura1http://www.blogger.com/profile/00672152692345839654noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-53962442322958376322019-06-27T14:02:46.824-07:002019-06-27T14:02:46.824-07:00Dear lilura, when you have time could you kindly u...Dear lilura, when you have time could you kindly update this post to include builds for bards, druids and magic users mehmetkuchttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17567671342140266049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-2344826080014354582018-06-11T06:06:59.321-07:002018-06-11T06:06:59.321-07:00Yes, which is why 90 rolls on Paladins are easy to...Yes, which is why 90 rolls on Paladins are easy to get. There are also racial ability mins.Lilura1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00672152692345839654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-955206926230067342018-06-11T00:40:08.832-07:002018-06-11T00:40:08.832-07:00I've rolled plenty of bad stats in BG, althoug...I've rolled plenty of bad stats in BG, although I can't say for sure the totals after all this time. What I do remember, though, is that it adjusts your rolls so that you always have at least the minimum required stats for your chosen class.Marekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17740188865705064659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-73515153266240851882018-06-10T08:27:29.234-07:002018-06-10T08:27:29.234-07:00Yeah, bad roll is a problem but since we are talki...Yeah, bad roll is a problem but since we are talking about computer games we can kinda fix it on start. For example we are ok with our player rolling 3 stats equal to 16 and 3 stats as 3. 48+9=57 points minimum. So we program our random stat generator in such a way that it wont give us pointbuy lower then 57, but still allowing you to miracally roll perfect 18 in each stat. As far as I know BG already do something similar since I don't remember ever rolling less then 48 stat total 48 Desmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09817048176493996627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-81173613794389812212018-06-07T07:44:41.244-07:002018-06-07T07:44:41.244-07:00Oh, I do agree with everything you said; you expre...Oh, I do agree with everything you said; you expressed it very well, too.<br /><br />Please excuse my tangentiality and explictness. I blame the gulping of red wine :P<br /><br />In regard to 18/00 Strength, I confess to rolling for it several times over the years. Of course, these days, being that I'm getting on in years / increasingly realizing the shortness of life (and its brutish and nasty nature, to quote Hobbes), I reflexively employ the Ctrl + 8 cheat (even Shadowkeeping stats is a rigmorole for which I no longer have the patience). And yes, in ToEE, I employ the above cheat (detailed in the body of the post) in order to yield the desired stats (I believe this cheat no longer works in Temple+).<br /><br />Note that, by employing the above cheats, one does not have to accept perfect 18s. You can certainly be reasonable and begin the game with un-spents. Thus, I justify it to myself (and indeed, lose some of the magic that stems from the idiosyncracy that you are right to have mentioned.)Lilura1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00672152692345839654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-89132983601817757832018-06-06T09:50:02.199-07:002018-06-06T09:50:02.199-07:00I may have ninja skills but it seems my typing ski...I may have ninja skills but it seems my typing skills need work. My 2nd paragraph above is rather mangled, but hopefully still comprehensible.<br /><br />At any rate, you would have to survive long enough to obtain those items, potions, spells etc., which could be a challenge for a character with lots of 3 scores. Your examples are also Baldur's Gate-specific, and though that is indeed the chief game most people would think of with regard to randomly rolled stats, the question might also be asked more abstractly. If, for example, one were designing an RPG system from scratch and considering whether point-buy or random rolls were better, BG-specific stat boosts might not be relevant (though most systems do have some sort of stat-boosting mechanic).<br /><br />Of course even with a point buy system it is not as if the difference between an expert player's powerbuild and a noob putting points in whatever looks cool is not also significant. The main disadvantage is just the tedium, while the main advantage is the increased likelihood of interesting, idiosyncratic characters (e.g., your strength discussion above reminded me of the very, very few BG & IWD characters for which I actually managed to roll 18/00, which of course made them particularly memorable).rogueknight333https://www.blogger.com/profile/13801106684065769738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-36262173872410009252018-06-05T22:55:20.933-07:002018-06-05T22:55:20.933-07:00(Your post ninja'd mine. I basically just said...(Your post ninja'd mine. I basically just said that I prefer point-buy because re-rolling is tedious.)<br /><br />Let's take a more explicit example: Strength score for a warrior in BG.<br /><br />Score / to-hit / dmg<br /><br />• 3: -3, -1<br />• 4-5: -2, -1<br />• 6-7: -1, +0<br />• 8-15: +0, +0<br />• 16: +0, +1<br />• 17: +1, +1<br />• 18: +1, +1<br />• 18/01-50: +1, +3<br />• 18/51-75: +2, +3<br />• 18/76-90: +2, +4<br />• 18/91-99: +2, +5 (10% chance of rolling in chargen)<br />• 18/00: +3, +6 (1% chance of rolling in chargen)<br /><br />So the difference between 3 and 18/00 is HUGE. One could barely hit a mook whereas the other will likely hit and definitely kill in one blow.<br /><br />As Rogueknight 333 said, difficult to balance for. But we must remember that player has access to the following, in-campaign:<br /><br />Stength of One (third circle cleric spell): sets Strength to 18/75 for 1 turn<br />Strength (second circle arcane spell): sets Strength to 18/50 for 1 turn per caster lvl<br />Potion of Strength (sets Strength to 18, 20 turns)<br />Gauntlets of Ogre Power (sets Strength to 18/00 for as long as they are worn)<br /><br />Player can also still reach super-human Strength scores by virtue of potions:<br /><br />• 19: +3, +7<br />• 20: +3, +8<br />• 21: +4, +9<br />• 22: +4, +10<br />• 23: +5, +11<br />• 24: +6, +12<br />• 25: +7, +14<br /><br />Potion of Hill Giant Strength (sets Strength to 19, 10 turns)<br />Potion of Stone Giant Strength (sets Strength to 20, 10 turns)<br />Potion of Frost Giant Strength (sets Strength to 21, 10 turns)<br />Potion of Fire Giant Strength (sets Strength to 22, 10 turns)<br />Potion of Cloud Giant Strength (sets Strength to 23, 10 turns)<br />Potion of Storm Giant Strength (sets Strength to , 10 turns)<br />Violet Potion (sets Strength to 25, Dex 3, Con 3, 24 hours)<br /><br />So, what I'm saying is, you can still sort of get by with low Strength because, for the most part, BG Strength boosts generally SET the score rather than just adding to it (examples of exceptions are the Manual of Gainful Exercise and DUHM.)<br /><br />And what a sub-optimal Strength score does is, it gets you relying more on buffs and items.<br /><br /><br />Lilura1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00672152692345839654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-41126730969685719192018-06-05T20:07:52.880-07:002018-06-05T20:07:52.880-07:00On balance, I would have to come down on the side ...On balance, I would have to come down on the side of point buy systems as being ultimately better. Constantly re-rolling to get decent stats before one can even really start the game is annoyingly tedious. Alternatively, if one could discipline oneself to simply accept a bad roll (or a game could somehow force one too), it would make for a game in which pure luck was excessively important. Balancing the game for those who accept bad rolls, try only for "good enough" rolls, or who have the patience to wait for perfect rolls could also be somewhat problematic.<br /><br />However, point buy systems do have one disadvantage: with them there it very hard to find a convincing reason to play anything other than a min-maxed power build. Random rolling lends itself more to creating oddball characters with quirky stats, with concomitant role-playing advantages, as one saves time by going with rolls that are good enough but less than perfect, or, alternatively, on a really good roll, give a character a bit more INT or CHA than is strictly necessary for power-gaming purposes, making.rogueknight333https://www.blogger.com/profile/13801106684065769738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-21253506361216877672018-06-04T00:07:52.954-07:002018-06-04T00:07:52.954-07:00I wonder what system is better - random pointbuy b...I wonder what system is better - random pointbuy based on dice like her and in BG or pulling points from one maxed pool like in Nwn 1 and 2Desmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09817048176493996627noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-8494980351425228662018-03-06T03:36:49.801-08:002018-03-06T03:36:49.801-08:00Thanks the reminder of Pelor/Sun domain. Post upda...Thanks the reminder of Pelor/Sun domain. Post updated with a note.Lilura1https://www.blogger.com/profile/00672152692345839654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8345126191270611325.post-61461495613042932032018-03-05T19:35:01.345-08:002018-03-05T19:35:01.345-08:00Ahh, yes...the glaive wielding warrior w/combat re...Ahh, yes...the glaive wielding warrior w/combat reflexes and a high dex score. I liked Half-orc low intelligence barbarians using a similar scheme paired with rage. Reading your character suggestions bring back some fond memories. I was especially partial to Pelor clerics. That sweet and powerful enhanced undead turning of a Sun domain Pelor priest makes for a nice cake walk in some of the early battles versus skeletons and zombies. Good times. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com